「無いこと」を観測する方法ってあんの?


スポンサードリンク
スポンサードリンク
1:2017/03/13(月)03:37:22 ID:
例えばみかんが5個あるとして、四つのみかんは手元にあるけど五つ目が見つからない。
隠されているのか、透明なのか、そもそも無いのか。観測しようがないじゃねーか。
仮定した時点でみかんは存在していると言える。つまり、あると仮定できる全ての物や現象は存在していると言える。

ってのを考えついたんやけど完全に深夜の脳ショートや
頭空っぽにして議論してくれや

38:2017/03/13(月)03:48:52 ID:

そもそも無い事を証明する事の可否を話す例として>>1は頓珍漢やな

137:2017/03/13(月)05:03:46 ID:

>>1
ある ← あることがある
ない ← ないことがある

2:2017/03/13(月)03:38:44 ID:

もちろん、人間の観測しだいで物の有無は変化するって説を背景にしてるで

3:2017/03/13(月)03:39:01 ID:

無いんやから無いやろ

5:2017/03/13(月)03:39:24 ID:

>>3
何が無いんや?

10:2017/03/13(月)03:40:46 ID:

>>5
「仮にみかんが5つあるとする」←仮説
「でも実際にはみかんは4つかしか観測できなかった」←事実ゆえに仮説は間違っていた

おわり。

7:2017/03/13(月)03:39:46 ID:

深夜に建てるようなスレじゃなくて草

8:2017/03/13(月)03:40:28 ID:

>>7
唐突に脳みそが働き始めて普段考えつかんこと考える時あるやん?
それを文章にしてみた結果がこれや

11:2017/03/13(月)03:41:30 ID:

このスレは面白く無い

これは観測できるやん

12:2017/03/13(月)03:41:36 ID:

仮定:無は存在する

無は観測できない
観測できないものは存在しない

結論:よって、無というものは存在しない

こういうことか?

15:2017/03/13(月)03:42:52 ID:

ガンプラのパーツ無くしたけど実際にはあるはずやん
けどそもそも元からあったのか無かったのかもわからんし透明なパーツで視認できへんのかも
しかし認識上ではあるはずなんや

23:2017/03/13(月)03:43:57 ID:

>>15
無い自分の言葉に惑わされているだけや

19:2017/03/13(月)03:43:11 ID:

ないものはない

22:2017/03/13(月)03:43:55 ID:

>>19
でも無いことがあるのを観測できない

26:2017/03/13(月)03:44:23 ID:

>>22
あることも証明できないじゃん?

27:2017/03/13(月)03:44:46 ID:

>>26
つまり何もかもあるようで無い…?ああああああああああああああああああああああああああああ

33:2017/03/13(月)03:47:43 ID:

>>27
まず証明って何やねん
みかんが5つあるっちゅう前提をおくならどうやっても「あと一つある」やんけ
何言うてんねん、それは自分から論理をしっちゃかめっちゃかにしてるだけやぞ

37:2017/03/13(月)03:48:43 ID:

>>33
すまんな、見返さずにバーッと書いたんや
それに、穴がある方が議論もしやすいやん?(焦)

20:2017/03/13(月)03:43:48 ID:

4次元空間の話でしょ

21:2017/03/13(月)03:43:55 ID:

そりゃそもそもおかしな仮定とか何でもありにすれば話も無茶苦茶になりますわ

24:2017/03/13(月)03:43:59 ID:

よそはよそ
うちはうち
この哲学の被害者は多いと思う

30:2017/03/13(月)03:47:18 ID:

観測していないものを、「ある」と認識している
ってのがイッチの出発点やろ?「ない」が「ある」

でもたぶん、これただの言葉遊びやで

32:2017/03/13(月)03:47:40 ID:

>>30
人間の理屈じゃどうにもならないんですか…?

39:2017/03/13(月)03:49:03 ID:

>>32
現実に人間は「ない」ってことを認識できるよって、無いものは無い

31:2017/03/13(月)03:47:40 ID:

見えないものを見ようとしてるのか

34:2017/03/13(月)03:47:59 ID:

>>31
観測しやすい便利な望遠鏡が、欲しいところや

35:2017/03/13(月)03:48:27 ID:

ドーナツの穴はドーナツを食べ終わっても存在するか?

40:2017/03/13(月)03:50:20 ID:

>>35
ドーナツの穴を穴として「ある」と認識しているのにね。
それとも、穴の定義が失われた時点でそれは存在しないと考えるべきなのか
元あったのものが失われた新しい空間に残った「穴」と捉えるべきなのか

36:2017/03/13(月)03:48:31 ID:

その理論で行くと、願望もかないそうやな

ここに~があるはずなのに!って

41:2017/03/13(月)03:51:26 ID:

穴はドーナツがあってはじめてできるのだから、ドーナツがなくなれば穴も消えるのでは……

43:2017/03/13(月)03:52:18 ID:

>>41
ドーナツの穴以外が無くなったという新しい条件下に残ったドーナツの穴ではないか

45:2017/03/13(月)03:52:55 ID:

>>43
いやせやから「ドーナツの穴」という物の存在条件にはまず「ドーナツ」の存在があんねん

48:2017/03/13(月)03:53:30 ID:

>>45
でもそこにあるのは紛れもなくドーナツの穴だよね

49:2017/03/13(月)03:53:56 ID:

>>48
揚げパンの穴やで

51:2017/03/13(月)03:54:09 ID:

>>49
ふぁ!?きなこあげぱん大好き

52:2017/03/13(月)03:54:20 ID:

>>48
紛れも無く無いで
だって存在条件を満たしてへんからな

56:2017/03/13(月)03:56:42 ID:

>>52
存在条件が、「ドーナツに空いている穴である」なのだとしたら、ドーナツの穴以外を食べたあとだと
「ドーナツの穴以外を食べたあとに残った無」ってことになるんか?ワイの仮説やと「無」はあるから無だったものは存在しているんやけど

57:2017/03/13(月)03:57:42 ID:

>>56
せやから残らへんのやで、ドーナツが存在せんくなるからな
ちゅうかお前の仮説ってまず何や?
46:2017/03/13(月)03:53:14 ID:
穴を残して食べたドーナツ、穴は残った?

50:2017/03/13(月)03:54:03 ID:

もうこれわかんねぇな

ワイは消滅派で

58:2017/03/13(月)03:57:48 ID:

あれ?なら無は無いんか?それともドーナツの穴はそもそも無なのか?

59:2017/03/13(月)03:58:20 ID:

>>58
お前自分から話をややこしくしようと滅茶苦茶言うてるだけやん
そんなん何がおもろいねん

60:2017/03/13(月)03:58:33 ID:

なんかよく分からんくなってきたわ

64:2017/03/13(月)03:59:15 ID:

>>60
だってイッチは考えてないもの
言葉をならべて考え事ごっこをしてるだけ

65:2017/03/13(月)04:00:12 ID:

>>64
うん何も考えてへんよ
>>1に書いた通り

61:2017/03/13(月)03:58:59 ID:

ドーナツの穴=無とか難しく考えんな
見えないものはありません!

62:2017/03/13(月)03:59:02 ID:

最初の話のみかんの5個目とドーナツの穴は一緒なのか?

63:2017/03/13(月)03:59:04 ID:

そもそもアホワイが考えていい問題ではなかった

66:2017/03/13(月)04:01:35 ID:

それよりワイはワイに見えてるものが他の人と同じなのかが気になるな、味覚もやけど

67:2017/03/13(月)04:01:52 ID:

大腸菌を確実に検出できる機械があります
水道水100リットルをこの機械で調べたところ、大腸菌は検出されませんでした。
調べた水に大腸菌はいますか?

68:2017/03/13(月)04:02:16 ID:

>>67
おらへんやろ(即答)

70:2017/03/13(月)04:02:48 ID:

>>67
おらへんな

71:2017/03/13(月)04:05:14 ID:

>>67
作業中に入るかもしれんから分からん

72:2017/03/13(月)04:05:33 ID:

>>71
確実に検出できる機械やぞ

73:2017/03/13(月)04:05:45 ID:

>>72
うん

74:2017/03/13(月)04:06:54 ID:

>>73
だから絶対にないねん
~かもって仮定を問題に持ち出すのはナンセンス

75:2017/03/13(月)04:08:01 ID:

>>74
それは機械だけの話やん
機械の形状や作業方法、検査後の水に大腸菌が入っていないかの検査によって変わるやろ

78:2017/03/13(月)04:09:30 ID:

>>75
お前は「たかしくんが100円持ってりんごを買いに行くときに、もしかしたら通りすがりのおじさんに20円のお小遣いをもらえるかもしれない」とか考えるんか?

77:2017/03/13(月)04:09:28 ID:

解答例

検査中の水には大腸菌は含まれていない(その前後は知らん)

80:2017/03/13(月)04:09:57 ID:

>>77
なんかの知能障害のテストみたいやな

82:2017/03/13(月)04:12:00 ID:

>>77
検査中なら普通に入ってる可能性あるやろ

85:2017/03/13(月)04:14:49 ID:

>>82
その水の検査結果が大腸菌無し

81:2017/03/13(月)04:11:13 ID:

ドーナツには穴がないんやぞ

ただああいう形ってだけや

84:2017/03/13(月)04:12:48 ID:

>>81
トーラスドーナツやね
焼く時にあの形状だと火が通りやすいとかいう。
家庭科で習った

89:2017/03/13(月)04:15:49 ID:

>>81
ドーナツの形状で一般認識として穴が開いている
そして「ドーナツの穴」として認知している以上
ドーナツに穴が存在することは事実である

90:2017/03/13(月)04:16:02 ID:

>>89
日本語の穴やね

92:2017/03/13(月)04:18:12 ID:

無いってなんやねん
うっとおしいもの作りやがってホンマに

93:2017/03/13(月)04:19:23 ID:

みかん5個用意します
一個を段ボールで被います
認識できるのは4個

94:2017/03/13(月)04:21:15 ID:

>>93
自分で隠したなら5個目の存在を認識していると言っていいのでは

95:2017/03/13(月)04:21:35 ID:

この過程を見てた人はミカンが5個あるってわかる
でも、見てない人は?

96:2017/03/13(月)04:22:13 ID:

これはアスペ検査ですねぇ…

97:2017/03/13(月)04:22:44 ID:

テキトーに思いついたことをヅラヅラ上げてくお仕事

98:2017/03/13(月)04:23:04 ID:

>>97
だからそう書いてるやんけ
お前もみかんと一緒に消すぞ

99:2017/03/13(月)04:23:44 ID:

>>98
は? 理解力がないのを人のせいにすんなや
別にお前に向けて書いた訳やないぞ

100:2017/03/13(月)04:24:08 ID:

>>99
安価も無しに何言ってるんや

102:2017/03/13(月)04:24:40 ID:

>>100
何で安価してないなら尚更やろ

109:2017/03/13(月)04:26:32 ID:

あらないものは無いでいいじゃん(いいじゃん)

115:2017/03/13(月)04:32:13 ID:

ドーナツにも穴があるんだな……ゴクッ

116:2017/03/13(月)04:33:04 ID:

>>115
食べ物で遊ぶのはアカンで

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